Hunt Tournament?

I was thinking that it would be fun to maybe do a hunting tournament....what do you guys think? I am not sure 100% what the entire format would be but I wanted to get some feedback from you all.... if you guys think it would be fun and would be interested let me know. At this point I would plan on running it at a preserve over here with Chukar's after the end of normal preserve dates so we have nicer weather.

Give me some feedback!

Well since my prof. is sick today I have time to sit down and answer. This would be my approach to the "tournament". This is the first of three parts of the APLA test for pointing Labs.

Quote:
UPLAND

The Upland Field will consist of approximately 3 to 5 acres of light to medium cover (as available). The premium for the test will identify what game birds will be available for the upland work(chukar and/or pheasant). (Good quality quail may be used only when suitable chukar or pheasant are not available.) When returning the premium, handlers will select what combination of three (3) of the available birds they will use for the test. These three birds will be placed at random throughout the Upland Field. The Handler must indicate to the judge whether he himself wants to put up the birds, wants the gunner to put up the birds, or wants to send in the dog to flush the birds after they are pointed. He must also indicate whether he wants any birds shot that the dog puts up without having pointed. The handler and dog must hunt the entire field efficiently searching for three birds. The team will be allowed to remain on the Upland Field for a maximum of 15 minutes. (The time can be shortened by the judges only if the dog has found three birds or if, in the judges’ opinion, because of heat or other factors, continuing the hunt would be dangerous for the dog.) The field party will consist of the handler and dog, two (2) judges, a designated gunner, and at most one apprentice judge. Spectators may be present in a designated area. With the consent of the handler, other designated individuals may accompany the field party, such as a photographer or one other "guest". Should those individuals "bump" a bird in the field or cause a dog to fail to hold a point it is considered the responsibility of the handler and the entry will not be considered for any type of protest or re-run. Guests in the field party may not give any type of verbal communication, directive, or support to the handler, and are required to remain in the holding area while birds are being planted. Guests providing the handler guidance or help risk the dog and handler being disqualified.

Points would be awarded as follows:

5 point for finding the first bird in under 10 minutes.
2 points for retrieving to hand. ( bird may be dropped, but once the bird is down the handler must remain stationary and the bird must be brought to them.)
5 points for covering the majority of the field. (I.E.) casting back and forth between a line of hunters and spectators.
15 points for 2 birds within 15 minutes. (from point/flush to retrieve)
1 for steadiness

Remember this would be something for both flushing dogs and pointing dogs. So we have to have rules that are blanketed to all the dogs. Thanks for the feedback. I don't want to run this like every other hunt test. I would like it to be a fun tournament where even a non-dead broke dog could come out and have fun.

Keep the feedback coming.

sounds like fun - whatever the format

Brian,

Are you planning to do any UKC Upland Hunt Tests? OH HRC has a double header this weekend. St. Clair Flats, Oxford, MI has one on the 22nd.

Barb

Barb,

I would like to BUT.... Sky does NOT sit at the flush and I do not want her to do that. I have lost way to many birds from dogs that sit on flush. Since that is a requirement for UKC, probably not! Other than that yes we would like to do some but I don't think Sky will pass.

Yeah, it looks a bit tough. They have to honor, as well. They can throw in a walk up, the dog has to sit.

Barb

We think that it would be a great idea Beth. If it is not raining maybe all of the will birds flush so Misti doesn't have to just retrieve. lol.

We like the idea to have it more relaxed than a trial. So more dogs can participate.
We have never hunted chuker but it really sounds like fun.

Beth, you asked for feedback and ideas. I think what Brian submitted while it is from the APLA trial it would work for both pointers and retrievers.

He stated that FINDING the bird would be worth points NOT POINTING or FLUSHING the bird. You will have to have some structure to the event and as you said it would have to apply to both pointers and flushers. Since the idea of the game would be to find, and either point or flush the birds and to simulate an actual hunt scenario, his suggestion would work well as it would favor neither the pointer or retriever and would work from non-hunters through regular hunting dogs and field trial champions.

When you start to look at a competition or tournament you need to have some structure to follow. Assuming that we all want this to simulate real life hunts and what we believe the ideal hunting dog should do, this scenario actually does work quite well.

I'll keep it brief:
*5 - 10 acres of field - planted with 3 - 5 chukar, quail, or pheasant. (I personally like the idea of quail because hey can be purchased less expensively).
*20 - 30 minutes to cover the field max per dog and handler team.
* First bird found in ten minutes = points
* Retrieve to hand = points (my ideal of a good hunting dog)
* Bird Retrieved but not delivered to hand. = points
* All planted birds found within time limit = points
* Dog should cast back and forth, ie work the field in front
of the hunter and judges.

Since the idea is to have a fun tournament, where all the dogs can have fun. but you still want to have a tournament or something like that you will need to have points of some type.

Since we HAVE competed in trials and know what they are like,
they can be fun or they can be complicated and stressful. Personally I like the idea of fun, but I still want to see some rules in place that will assure that everyone has a chance to have a good time and show what their dogs are capable of.

Since Chukar are hard and fast flyers, they may be a good choice BUT if they are missed you would need to evaluate that as well. I also think that the tournament needs to have some kind of control of your dog or points.

ROCK wrote:Yeah, it looks a bit tough. They have to honor, as well. They can throw in a walk up, the dog has to sit.

Barb

I agree Barb, this is a very challenging hunt test. I know quite a few hunters and dogs that have tried it and failed!
Personally, I do not want the dog to sit on flush. I find that very frustrating in the UKC rules.

Good luck with TEN this year, he is a fine looking guy. How much does he weigh now? We are considering breeding partners for Sky this fall and TEN may be a good candidate, although you know my propensity for smaller labs

If we are doing this for fun, the retrieve could be to bring it back, say, within 10 feet of the shooter.
Also how do we account for a poor shooter like me, who will prob miss 2/3 of the birds, and Brian Sr. who would hit 100% :-) ??

The probable solution to poor shooters would be to have two gunners the team member and a either specified gunner or someone that the team selects. You could have as many as two or even three gunners in the field. It would not matter. There will always be fly offs, that is pretty much a given. The issue there is that the dog MUST remain under control and let the fly off go on command, in order to receive the maximum points. But that is just my opinion.

Having more gunners in the field increase the odds of a hit and retrieved bird, plus it allows more individuals to participate and have a good time.

I was not denying that Brian gave me good feedback I was just saying this has to be something that is blanket rules that will be fare to both a pointing dog and a flushing dog. Until you have run trials with both dogs it is hard to really understand the difference and why one likes one thing over the other.

If at any point this becomes a argumentative issue it just won't happen as it isn't worth my time and energy putting it together if people are not going to be happy with the out come.

We have some very strong hunting dogs in this group of UAD people. But my opinions very from what the Butlers do on if a dog should be steady to wing and shot. I don't think they should personaly. But we are all allowed our own opinion and that is fine it is just going to be trying to decide a happy medium that will be good for all the dogs to play!

As far as what kind of birds our only option outside of preserve months is the Chukar or the black pheasant. We can't use bob white quail as they are michigan native. And I have yet to see very many good flying preserve quail. But that is just me.

Keep the good feedback coming. I like what I am getting so far.

Yes Brian I hear ya, but it's all about simulating the hunt in HT, thus the rules. Thank you on Ten. Last weigh in about 3 weeks ago, 62 lbs. I did visit with him last week and took some photos. I'll email you one when I get them off my camera. Ten is not a big dog. Still growing, but he should be an average size male field lab. He's definitely slender, but filling out in all the right places

So when are you all planning this hunting tournament?

Barb

Barb, since this is new idea, stemming for our hunt yesterday, I really can't answer. and will have to defer to Beth.

I was thinking April or May. If not by then then probably later summer after the weather isn't so hot. We will see how it all pans out.

You can always use reds or Couturnix I have a good contact for hard flying reds :-) they are so tough they killed all my couturnix :-( I would love to but we would have to limit the gunning to .410

So lets start mapping some of this out a bit. I was thinking having it be a maximum of 30 dogs.

Do we want to run them in braces? (meaning two dogs at a time)?

Do we want to run it so there are different levels of dogs. For example having a certian number of spots open for "novice" "beginner" "experienced"?

Ok..... start tossing some ideas out there....

At this point I was thinking running in braces so it would give the ability to give points for backing/honoring and was thinking of running it so there are different levels etc.

Once again some feedback would be great!