Ultimate Dog Champion 2009

Ultimate Dog is a totaly separate compition from the regular events, and will not affect anyone who does not want to compete for the title. It will have nothing to do with UKC titles or regular UAD titles.

So when I am at a competition I can compete in the ultimate air splashes and qualify for the finals in that event and take first place with just registering for that one competition?

Intellabs wrote:So when I am at a competition I can compete in the ultimate air splashes and qualify for the finals in that event and take first place with just registering for that one competition?

yes

I like the points thing, but I think we would need to be careful as Kel mentioned about top 5 placements. I would hope that would be for the weekend and not just finals. Your dog could potentially jump a consistent highest score in it's division all weekend and place 5th in finals just because they jumped in 3 different events like UA, UV, FI or UA, UV, CI or any other combo. I don't think that dog should be then penalized. I think consistency doesn't always come down to what happens in finals. Just a thought.......

I absolutely agree with Kel that you should have to sign up to be eligible for UD consideration. It would save a lot of unnecessary calculations for people who don't want to do that.

I would think that anyone who thought they had a chance, or was interested would sign up for UD and you would still have a bunch of dogs on the list.
Lets say 50 dogs signed up for UD, then whoever is keeping track would have to look at each event see who had signed up for UD and if they jumped at that event, and then keep their scores. I just see that as a nightmare keeping it accurate.
I don't think the finals is as much of a problem as you might think. Look at Macomb. the only events on Sunday are CI, 1 splash and the finals. Not a lot of jumping in one day. The worst day is Sat if you are doing UA, FI, UV. A dog has a chance to rest over night.
Also one doesn't have to enter all three events at every jump if you think your dog might do better not jumping so much. You could also skip one splash on a big day, like Sat a Macomb to keep him fresher.

The being tired in the finals is the same issue for all the dogs. All of them would have jumped a bunch and I guess the toughest dogs would prevail.

I think of UD as a type of "Iron Dog" competition and I think that it should be the toughest, biggest jumping, and most consistant dog that wins.

What happens say, if in the Junior finals the top three dogs jump Senior jumps. By UAD rules they are placed in the Junior division. If you do UD by distance are they going to be put into the senior division and get senior pts? Which would be less Pts than what they would have gotten if given pts by placement.

I have one question and this probably is along the lines of what Marty had originally posted. Why not have a point system based on a base point sytem per foot in each category. Yes maybe at first it would be hard to track but I think in the long run it would be better. Just a thought

First before every event the handler must let the secretary know that they want to be scored for ud because no sence in scoring teams if a dog/handler dosent plan in competeing in at least 3 of the events that weekend. Second you score ,that handlers that are competeing in ud, best jump of the weekend in ultimate air(which would be something already being done to see where teams are at to be in the finals), best uv grab,best fetch it,or catch they score. But always using Ua because this would ultimatley decide what devision you would be in at the end of the year. For the consistancey part that is where the title the dog/handler team has comes into play at the end of the year your highest title determines who you ultimately are comepeteing with.

One thought is instead of using points based on what has been the highest to date why not just for example use 30 pts per categorey.0-30 feet because lets face it most dogs would need a rocket launcher to jump that far and you would not have to keep changing the point system say if a dog breaks the current record. 1 pt. per foot say in ua and fetch it, half a point per foot in catch it 0-60feet. and just as an example in uv 4'6-8'6 start pts. at 4'6= 6pts and finish 8'6 with 30 pts(6pts per foot starting at 4'6). Add those scores up at the end of the year the most points per titled dog wins that devision. Just thought.

I change my mind every time I reread these post (points for placement,ponts for distance,points for placement) When Ginger Realistically will probably not attend enough events to be a serious contender which im fine with because I think it should be a title for UAD regulars.

I think the secrertaries are already busy enough and they will not be the ones tabulating the scores. It will have to be someone who committs to keeping track for the whole year for somewthing like 40 events. So the sec will have to pass on who signed up for UD for each event and again the record keeper will have go find their distances.
I just think you are asking for problems the more complicated you make this IE: signing up.

Remember UAD does not have many employees, most are volunteers, and the more complicated, more information that has to be kept track of, and has to be passed on from one person to another the more likely it is to be mis-communicated.
While Kel's proposal is probably a bit more accurate it is a system that has a high probability of errors and would require a lot more work for all involved.
Personally her system is better for my dogs, but I don't have faith it will be accurate - TOO much work.

I ask this again
What happens say, if in the Junior finals the top three dogs jump Senior jumps. By UAD rules they are placed in the Junior division. If you do UD by distance are they going to be put into the senior division say 15'3", and get senior pts?
Which would be less Pts than what they would have gotten if given pts by placement.
They would have gotten a 1st in Juniors 5Pts - which is the division they are consistantly jumping in, but get senior Pts =1 ???

I would be kinda disapointed if at an event with say 5 splashes that my dog in the finals after jumping 11 times in the Junior division jumped 1" into Seniors, got first in Juniors, and only got 1 Pt in Seniors (Pogo senario:-). How is this rewarding consistancy?

Jim,
I didnt mean that the secretaries to caculate the for scoring that would def. have to be done after at some ones convience becuase your right there are verry busy at events .I just meant they could have the names and handlers jotted down to be scored at that later time. This way the person or persons keeping track of UD would not have to run through the event scores at a later time to see what teams competed in 3 of the four events for a given competition .

Also in your senerio above wouldnt your jumps even in the finals go towards legs in senior titles? I think this is one of the reasons for haveing one point scale (similar to Martys) and not apoint system for devisions or even placements because it will get vey confusing as the season goes on and teams get better and achieve higher titles. So wouldnt it be better to take and score the longest jump wether in a splash or in finals in ua. and then what ever your highest title at the end of the year be the devision you are competeing in.

example using the 0 to 30 I put up earliear but could use any base #

Dog 1 @ X expo
longest ua jump 20' =20pts
fetch it 15'= 15 pts
uv 6'0= 15pts total pts for expo weekend 50 to be added to ud overall points

Dog 2 @ x expo
longest jump of weekend 22'= 22 points
catch it 2 jumps equal 38 feet =16 pts
uv 5'2 =10pts total pts for that weekend 48 pts to be add overall
And at the end of the year you take the title a team has to see what division there in

That is what i was going for when I mentioned a base point system. I think it takes away from what divison you are in each individual event and I think represents all 4 events with a realitively fair grading scale to compare one another since not all the teams will have competed in the same 3 events all year due to the fact catch it wont always be avalible or uv ect ect.


I also agree it will take a dedicated person regardless what point system is used to keep track of everything.Any way I think its time to walk ginger. Forgive my spelling its really bad

I kinda doubt that this will be passed on to anyone besides the scorekeepers/secretaries already working with UAD (maybe, but I don't know). That's just my guess based on what I've seen in the past, as no one has ever really been taken up on the offers to help... besides the addition of a few more secretaries (but the scorekeeping itself has pretty much always been done by the same people). And it is not strictly volunteer work. Most are either being paid for their time and/or getting free jumps in exchange for their work. Not that any of that matters for this topic or in general.

While I do think that pts based on distances might be more work than placements, I don't think it would be much more and believe it is a very reasonable system to work with. Again, if that is the system decided upon, but those already working on scores feel they do not have the time to devote to it, I don't think Milt would be at a shortage of volunteers willing to take on the task. Heck, a team of a few volunteers could probably be arranged even... to further help prevent any mistakes in scorekeeping, since it would then be double/triple checked.

I don't think requiring people to sign up for UD at the season's start is going to cause any more complications... rather, it will create less paperwork and needed score keeping. Some dogs may be left out of the running that way if they suddenly start doing well in three sports near the season's end and have a shot at it... but that's just the trade off you take sometimes. Again, were it any of my own dogs, I would have no issue with waiting until the following season if we missed the sign up date for the first time around.

As for a dog that jumps out of their division a few times... I remember a few things being talked about a few posts back. You would either have the option of using their longest jump for the season to determine division (meaning that, yes, they would get bumped up), or using their top title for the season (meaning they would probably not be bumped up), or doing something like Beth proposed with taking averages (meaning they would likely not be bumped up since it would average out within their normal division). There was another option proposed, I believe... but I don't remember it at the moment and don't have time to dig through the last posts again... lol.

On the topic of being tired for finals... it actually isn't always an issue for all dogs. Remember, there are a good number of dogs who jump bigger in UA as the event goes on. Still, most of those dogs just do UA or UA and CI... not too many do three or more per event. Dogs that do UV and grab multiple heights often will be quite a bit more tired for finals. And, except for Colby and Meadow, I can't think of any other Ultimate jumpers who regularly do UV and CI (and now FI, too) also. So, they are usually more tired than the rest of the finals field who are only jumping UA. Same goes for some of the other UV regulars... but many of them don't always make finals, either... so it's not an issue for them. Guage does UV as well... but not lately... so, again, he is likely to have a little more energy than the dogs who do more than two sports per event. Aro also does three (would do CI too if I could throw worth a dang... lol), but I'm just lucky in that he has an amazing amount of natural endurance. Also, he tends to jump mid-senior... so he usually doesn't make finals anyway, so being tired for that isn't an issue for us anyway. But, for the dogs that regularly do make finals and do three or four sports per event, I've noticed that they do tend to be quite a bit more tired by event's end. I suppose a trade off or possible solution for that might be to not enter all the regular splashes... maybe just one or two... enough to make finals and then stop and focus on UV, CI, FI, w/e. I guess it would have to be a personal call based on individual teams' goals for the event/season.

Well, we are about to find out the answer. This weekend is the first UD event!!!

I have to interject that I don't think being tired in the finals is the same for all dogs. I never realized how exhausting UV, at the really high heights, is. Meadow is in awesome condition and it takes her more than a night to recover from starting at 6' and going up to 7' jumps. UV used to be after finals, but lately it is always before finals. With that said, the last 3 events we've been to Meadow has had the top jump of the weekend, but crashed in finals after doing UV. Obviously there is no solution that is going to make everyone happy and I realize that Meadow is unique in that she's jumping high 23's to low/mid 24's, then doing 7' UV plus Catch It (when I can throw, lol). I like points per increment and it should be based on the whole weekend of jumping and not just finals. I don't want to start having to play the "game" of only entering certain splashes in order to strategize. The girls have a blast jumping and if I need to "strategize" because I know that UD is going to based on finals only then that takes the fun out of it all. I think that ALL dogs competing for UD should be judged on the merit of consistency and performance throughout the season in ALL 3 of their respective events. I'd rather just jump as usual, not have to strategize and just have some fun. I realize it is a competition, but I've learned that at the end of the day the dogs are just having fun. Only we know what those scores are. I've really had to learn that since watching M have those huge jumps and bomb finals because we chose to do other events. I don't have as much of an issue with Sage because she just isn't jumping as high.

Sorry, I didn't read all of Kel's post. Oops. She already covered this and hit it right on the mark.

Milt wrote:We are starting the Ultimate Dog Champion chase for 2009. The Ultimate Dog will have to be able to compete in 3 of the 4 dog sports that we have at UAD. Order of finish in these events are important. Each division will have an Ultimate Dog Champion except Novice. more to come on this later!

I think looking back at Milt's original post this is a "Chase" which I would read as being a year long thing, not something from each event. Kind of like they do in NASCAR where you build up points over the course of the year and the top teams fight it out for the campionship at the end of the year.

This would eliminate the need for calculating anything at events. It could be done after the fact.