Question for Annie Hammond...

Hey Annie,

Being in VA now, we're getting started with a couple dryland mushing groups we've found in the area. So, we're now also in need of a scooter and/or rig. I know you can get good scooters at the dogscooter.com website, but what about rigs? When we've mushed in the past, we've just used the dogsled, since there's actually enough snow for that in MI, lol. Besides that, we've just used the dog cart or the wagon during non-snow months... but we can't use those in the races. Anyway, I'm looking for something not too bulky/heavy, and good for a two or three dog team (possibly four later down the line). Have any suggestions on where to look? Also, any ideas on where to find a cheaper (but still good) scooter? The ones online are pretty pricey. Or if you hear of anyone selling their own used scooter or rig, please let me know.

We're doing a dryland race later this month... but had a lady generously offer to let us borrow one of her scooters to run in the two dog class. So, we're at least set for now. Should be fun...

Just found a ton of cool links for various manufacturers on the Sled Dog Central site... still, if you have any suggestions or know of any used scooters or rigs for sale, please let me know.

If you want an actual RIG, then I'd say Risdon. They are the most common (or maybe that's just in MI because they're headquartered in Ionia) but they are good, solid and you can buy the folding type to fit in a van, etc. Or, they make a model (maybe it has to be special ordered) that has real bearings on the wheels so that you can hook it to a hitch and PULL it instead of loading it. I don't run a Ridson rig because I'm not used to the style (mine is the same basic thing, but it was made by some random guy). For the size of your dogs, I would highly suggest a RIG. I'm sure you already know this, but scooters aren't always good for more than let's say two dogs. I run Connor on a scooter and I HATE it. Of course it's not top of the line, but I would much rather run a rig. The weight and locking break make it far more safe. I've comfortably run 8 dogs on my rig before......but I'm sure your boys are stronger than my sibes. Either way, 3 dogs will pull it just fine (I ran my team of 3 for years on it). Even if it costs too much to ship from Ridson, just look around for any company that makes rigs.


And you're right, I've looked into better scooters from dogscooter and they are VERY expensive! It's a big pain because they don't even look THAT hard to manufacture. I'll keep an eye for you out though and see if anyone is selling anything good .

Good luck with it all! What ones are you looking at on SDC? What kind of mileage are you doing for the dryland?

Well, we're doing 2 dog at this event and it's a shorter run at 2.2 miles. I'm with you on the rig vs scooter. My main concern with borrowing the scooter is that I have a TON of power hooked up to something very light with little brake power, and two inline wheels (as opposed to two side by side runners)... I'm beginning to really wonder if I'm going to have the thing flip up into a wheelie from a too fast/hard hitting start or skid off sideways on a fast turn. When you have 90+lb dogs capable of pulling over 2000lbs each (who knows what they can pull together?!) a scooter and a light weight musher is, realisitically speaking, a rather crazy thing to consider doing. Lol.

I bought this little razor scooter thing from a sporting goods store (it has four wheels, two in front, two in back... each very small... so I figure it can't go TOO fast, and will be a little easier to balance than a scooter with two inline wheels) because I figured I needed SOMETHING to work them on to get used to the idea before the race... so I hooked Baako up, just Baako, and headed out on some of the trails around the house, after dark so we wouldn't run anyone over. Lol. Most of the ride, I was thinking... OMG I'm going to die. Lol. Each time I'd stop and restart him, the scooter would shoot upward into a wheelie and I'd just hang on for dear life, and rock forward to get both ends back on the ground... and then just really hope we didn't hit/run over anything too big in the road to send the thing skidding (since it kinda went a little wild over minor obstacles even). Granted, I'm sure the scooter I'm borrowing weighs quite a bit more (and the wheels are bigger so I won't have to worry about rock/stick obstacles)... but I'm also convinced I'm kinda crazy for running them on a scooter in the first place. Lol. I just heard one of the host club's members has a rig for sale, though... so we may look into that.

Thanks for the info! Does Risdon have a website? If not, do you know contact info for them?

Risdon's site........ http://www.risdonrigs.com/
(some exciting news on my part- i'm getting the red euro sprint sled that's on the homepage!!!)

Ha yeah you're crazy for running your boys on a scooter! Like I said, I run Connor (and sometimes Elsie....when she's in the mood) on a toy- store scooter and let's just say thank god the black dog knows "on by!" If he didn't pass things and people and everything else, I'd have been dead longggg ago! I would never run more than two dogs on mine.
Here is a pic http://www.freewebs.com/answeringcall/RebScooter.jpg of a scooter I used to run on. Still, no way I'd do more than 2. The one I have now is a little different- basically a toy-store version of a dogscooter product....two small bike wheels and a deck to stand on. The smaller the wheels, the more deadly any turn will be!!

Very cool, thanks.

I wish I could find one similar to the scooter in your "RebScooter" pic. I wouldn't mind something like that with just one or two dogs. All the ones I've been able to find just have two inline wheels. I think it'd be a whole lot easier to balance through turns and the hard-hitting starts I'm likely to get with the tricycle type wheel setup. Ah well. Like you said, a rig is probably the best way to go anyway!

Lucky you on the new sled... looks pretty fancy!

Just came across this... http://www.sleddogcentral.com/features/products/manmat_wheel.htm It's been around for awhile though. Thought you might find it interesting if you hadn't already seen it. It would probably be great for my boys, or Connor, given their height. That's the reason I run them in their carting harnesses so often, actually.

http://www.howlingdogalaska.com/supplies.html

Yeah I've seen those before....my only problem is that I refuse to order harnesses on-line. IDK just something I don't like doing. I like to personally make sure everything fits etc. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from!!

The scooter: it was originally an "Assault Chariot" purchased from Toys-R-Us a few years back (I think I was like 11 when I got it for my birthday ). It came with two small pavement-only wheels situated under each foot deck. My dad mounted the side wheels when he started running dogs.....it worked out pretty well for a while. The first prototype worked out so well, we bought another, but never actually finished "mush-a-fying" it....so it's still in its pavement-only form. However, lack of a locking break is a little scary. It simply FLIES on cement I remember it being a little rough elsewhere, but not that bad. Honestly, if you're interested let me know and I'll see how soon my dad could get some bigger wheels on there. It's just sitting in the garage right now.

http://www.markysparkytoys.com/html/toycategories/toy/californiachariot.html
This is the original company I guess.....toys r us is a 'knock-off' brand apparently!!

Yeah, I'm with you on the online harness purchases, actually. That's why we always got ours from Beth Edge, since we could actually go visit her, she could size them up, and then we could make sure everything fit right. I just thought it was a neat idea/design. Maybe my mom could make the boys some like that... hehe.

I might actually be interested in your three wheel scooter... it'll depend on whether I like the rig the lady down here is selling (at least, it's being called a rig... but, from the video she sent me of her husband running a couple of their dogs on it, it actually looks rather similar to your scooter, only a bit heavier perhaps) and how much she is asking for it.

I'm assuming your dad also added the brush bow? What size were the rear wheels he added? Also, do you know how much the whole thing weighed by chance? From the CaliChariot site, it says they weigh 24 lbs... so my guess was it ended up between 25 and 30 with the modifications?

Sorry for all the questions... just trying to compare the two and see what would probably work best.

I'm not great with measurements, so I don't want to guess. I'll be seeing my dad in a few minutes though so I can let you know tonight about tire size. The brush bow is the one catch. We didn't really have one (unless you want to count the black tube put in place to hold the line away from the front tire) but we could probably figure something out. It wouldn't take much to get a harder piece of plastic to guard the front tire (though it may look a little ummm redneck ). The rear tires DO at a little weight, but I still wouldn't consider it heavy by any means. You're gonna want a snub line for sure (unless the boys still listen to pedestrian commands like "stay" in harness.....a laughable and worthless word for a forward-bound Connor). Even with the rear wheels, I could easily lift it into the truck (without the new wheels I can lift it over my head).

Ah, okay... in the "RebScooter" pic it looked like the curved bar in the front might have been an added on brush bow... maybe it's just the angle of the pic that makes it looks that way.

A little extra weight is nice, but it's not my main concern, I guess. Main concern would be balance... and I don't think I can balance well on two inline wheels with a team of crazed GSDs (at least, not without years of practicing). Three wheels will be much easier.

I'm not really concerned with "redneck" appearances... lol. You should see some of the agility and SAR obstacle equipment we have! What I always figure though is if they'll work on stuff that looks like that, then they won't have any issues with anything they might see at a competition! For example, I've seen a lot of dogs who will refuse a jump if it's not a standard hurdle (say it's a brush jump or the measurements are slightly off or whatever). Not my boys! Lol.

I hear ya' on the "pedestrian commands." Lol. My boys are totally different dogs in harness (and on the dock, for that matter... ) than in other sports/work. Now, they are actually really good about "whoa" and will hold a good line out after, but they do like to socialize and if someone were to approach them on the trail all friendly, high-pitched voice like, they would be dragging me and the sled on over to say hi... so I may go ahead and attach a snub line anyway. Better to have it and not need it than run into a situation where it's needed and not have it.

Now, put them in the obedience, agility, disc, etc. rings and they're super precise and quick to respond. A bit different when they're in psycho dock or pulling mode. Lol. I always figure though that, with some sports, you need to "give a little to get a little." With the sports that are all about power and speed, you don't necessarily want to demand a ton of restraint and precision, or you might risk loosing some of the drive/speed you'd otherwise get. So, it's kind of a balancing act, I think.

I just got a reply on the braking system for that rig/scooter the lady down here is selling. It has a bike style brake for the front wheel and then a foot brake that locks up the back wheels. So, it does have a locking brake... which is very cool.

She's going to take some wheel measurements and email me back after she gets home about those.

He said the back ones were 8". The only break on it is the front bike tire. As far as balance goes, this one turns on a dime- on cement at least....I think the bigger tires take away some of the maneuverability. I never really used it all that often because I always ran the rig with the whole team, but my dad ran his 3 dogs on it for like two years before he bought a rig (he has a risdon).

Do you have a picture of the one you're looking at? Just curious.

Yea, I have a couple pics and she is supposed to be sending me more tomorrow. I also have a vid of her husband running two of their dogs on it.

Here are the two I have thus far...

Interesting. It's about the same basic thing. Was it originally designed for dogs? (looks like it)

The one that I run Connor on is almost exactly what the second girl is running in the bottom picture...two tires and one skate board deck....though my wheels are smaller so it can get a little hairy!

That looks like alot of fun!! I bet if my dogs did that they would make me crash and burn!! Can't beat the gas mileage though!!

It most definitely is a lot of fun. Of course, it's even better on snow... We don't have any of that down here in VA though (like we did in MI), so now we're giving dry land mushing a shot.

As for the mileage...

"Dog power kicks gas."

Fairly common mushing saying/quote... don't know who originally came up with it though...

Annie, I'm not sure where they first got the scooter/rig/whatever you want to label it as, but I do know it was designed and made specifically for running dogs with. I mainly like the double brake setup and the three vs two wheels. I don't think I'd want to run more than one of my boys at a time on anything with just two inline wheels.

What we're used to...

My brother and I with our first team, pic taken in Grand Rapids... Kip and Max.



From last winter... Me with Jack Tar and Baako running on the roads near Justin's parent's house.



I'll be running Aro and Baako in the race later this month.

Ahhhh please tell me you own a pair of gloves! Your hands look so cold in the second pic! hahaha

Lol, yes... I think I just had them hanging by their strings from my wrists in that pic. I thought the same thing when I brought it back up on the computer... "where the heck are my gloves?" Lol. I did have some very warm, wool, glove-mits during that run though... so my hands certainly didn't freeze.

Annie,
Can you imagine that my kid wants the steadying influence of Aro instead of the "mad dash for the prize" mindset of Jack Tar added to the phycho need to win mindset of Baako?
And here I thought she enjoyed living life dangerously. Nothing like hooking yourself up to two explosive rockets for a real rush!

Angela I could always loan her botond to put out in front of them Preferably pointed toward water...He couldn't pull much but I know he would give Backo something to chase

Haha... I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh yeah, Thom... that's just what I need. Lets make Baako even more insane when he pulls by giving him a Vizsla to chase! Lol.

Poor Baako....just because he's a little obsessed hahaha he'd fit right in the with Alaskan team of mine! (Oh yes, I said Alaskan. Oh yes, they're new!)

Labwake wrote:Poor Baako....just because he's a little obsessed hahaha he'd fit right in the with Alaskan team of mine! (Oh yes, I said Alaskan. Oh yes, they're new!)

Thinking of prepping for the ididerad (sp) are we?