ARTHRITIS- any ideas?

Connor's ankle is honestly the size of a small tennis ball. He's had numerous x-rays to confirm that it's extremely arthritic, and has gotten progessively worse. It causes him to limp, but only after exercise.

As of now, he's on Deramaxx. I give it to him as needed after exercise.

To my understanding, Deramaxx is a painkiller, right? Does anyone know of supplements, etc that REBUILD joints or anything like that? He used to get SynoviG3 (ingredients: perna mussel, glucosamine, creatine, MSM)....would it be wise to restart him on that?

Any ideas would be helpful! I just hate to watch my 4 year old dog limp around the house after we run.

You can try giving a buffered asprin in addition as it is will help with the swelling as well as pain and put him back on something with glucosamine and condrition - human supps from the drugstore even work and save money.

we use Glyco-Flex for our older dogs

We use Hip Flex for our dogs! It helps with the inflamation in the joint as well as providing lubrication with glucosamine. It tastes like cherries!!!!!! Let me know next time you are coming to an event and I will bring you some to try!
Anna

If you go to a health foods store for dogs where they specialize in natural products or some pet stores may have it. A friend of ours has a lab who has hip problems. It's an additive to thier food and when this dog is on it, it shows no signs of pain at all!! This may work for arthritis too!! It comes in a liquid form.

I'm at work right now, so I will write more later. DO NOT GIVE ASPIRIN while on deramaxx. It will cause gastrointestinal ulcers! Deramaxx is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. It helps relieve pain by decreasing inflammation, but it is not a pure pain reliever.

Yes, yes, yes to glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate!!!! Cosequin is the only one that has the research to back it up, though.

labpaw wrote:DO NOT GIVE ASPIRIN while on deramaxx. It will cause gastrointestinal ulcers! Deramaxx is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory. It helps relieve pain by decreasing inflammation, but it is not a pure pain reliever.

Good to know. We have never used deramaxx so I was not aware of the contraindication. Sorry.

No problem! I often have people try a little aspirin as it works well with some patients.

I will have to look at the theraputic levels for Glucosamine and I know Alisa recomended a brand name but if you want some The supplement I feed has glocosamine amega 3 and 6, as well as yucca. All are helpful IMHO in reducing inflamation and pain. Alissa could comment further on wether the ingredients are advisable to use with the NSAID your dog is on.

Flaxseed, Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian), Freeze Dried Beef
Liver, Blackstrap Molasses, Rice Bran, Primary Dried Yeast, Sunflower
Seed, Dehydrated Alfalfa, Dried Carrot, Shark Cartilage Powder*, Freeze
Dried Fish Protein Powder, Freeze Dried Oyster Powder, Barley Grass
Leaves Powder, Dried Kelp, Zinc Monomethionine, Lecithin, Chromium
Yeast, Selenium Yeast, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Niacin
(Vitamin B3), Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Riboflavin
(Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Folic Acid, and
Cobalamin (Vitamin B12).

guarenteed anaylisis is
Glucosamine 500mg per serving
Omega 6 450 mg
omega 3 1000mg

They say it is safe to increase supplemetation in times of injury. If you need a bag I will have one for you when you come out in Sept

Ok... home now.

As I mentioned, Deramaxx (as well as aspirin, Rimadyl, Metacam, and others) are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories (NSAIDs). Just like with people (NEVER USE ON DOGS ) using Tylenol, Advil, etc, each one may have varrying effects on your dog. Some work better than others. In some very severe cases, I also use a pure pain reliever in addition to the NSAID.

On occasion, I have recommended a coated aspirin to dogs as well. ALL NSAIDs have potential side effects, so it is absolutely impairative that you only give it if you have discussed it with your veterinarian.

It is absolutely safe to give the NSAIDs with the glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate (G/C) products. Here is the scoop with the G/C products and what I recommend to my clients and patients (again, not everyone is going to agree here ):

They are what we call a neutraceutical. What that means is that it is technically not a "drug", per se. Therefore, the FDA has no quality control over the products being made available. It also means that not a lot of research goes into making these products, generally speaking. I think the majority are probably very good quality, but just as in everything in life, there are always a few to spoil it all! So.... what I usually recommend is that people start off with Cosequin, simply because it has the research to back up the product. I am in no way saying that other products are not equally as effective! But, if you see a positive response with the Cosequin, then at least you know that your pet is benefitting. If you use a no name product (not insinuating anyone else's suggestion are that... I mean generic, etc) and see no response, then you don't really know if it is the product quality, or if your pet is just not going to respond to the medication (and some do not respond, just as it is with all medications ).

It can take 4-6 weeks of using these products before you see the full effect. I do recommend that you use something with not only glucosamine, but also chondroitin sulfate, as they seem to work best when in combination with one another. Omega fatty acids have also been proven to show some benefit with arthritic patients, and MSM, etc certainly can't hurt. I used the Synovi G3 granules on my dogs, but I honestly saw a better response with Cosequin. That may not be the case with your pets, as everyone is different.

Here is a handout I give to some clients about artritis. Hope this helps!

ARTHRITIS

Arthritis is a complex condition involving inflammation of joints. There are many causes of arthritis in pets. In most cases, the degree of arthritis is related to the age of the animal.

What causes arthritis?

The most common type of arthritis is osteoarthritis (OA) which is also known as degenerative joint disease (DJD). This can be primary, the cause of which is unknown and secondary, following conditions involving joint instability leading to damage of the subchondral bone that line the joints. Some common causes of DJD include hip dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament rupture, and so forth.

Other causes include joint infection, often as the result of bites or injuries or it may follow joint trauma and damage.

Rheumatoid arthritis is an immune mediated, erosive, inflammatory condition. Cartilage and bone are eroded within affected joints and the condition can progress to complete joint fixation, (ankylosis). It may affect single joints or multiple joints may be involved (polyarthritis). In certain dog breeds Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA) factors can be detected with blood tests.

Other types of immune mediated arthritis can be non-erosive, such as arthritis that is associated with Systemic Lupus Erythematosis (SLE). SLE is often accompanied by other clinical signs in addition to the arthritis.

Infective or septic arthritis can be caused by a variety of microorganisms, such as bacteria, viruses and fungi. Septic arthritis normally only affects a single joint and the condition results in swelling, fever, heat and pain in the joint. Before long your pet is likely to stop eating and become depressed.

How do we treat arthritis?

Treatment will depend on the cause of arthritis. Immune mediated and rheumatoid arthritis are usually treated with high doses of corticosteroids which often lead to a dramatic response. The maintenance of these conditions often involves the long-term use of corticosteroids and other drugs such as immunosuppressive or cytotoxic agents.

The treatment of septic arthritis involves determining the type of microorganism involved and its antibiotic sensitivity. Antibiotics are usually administered for a minimum of a month and analgesics are also necessary to combat pain and inflammation.

Analgesics are the most common form of treatment for osteoarthritis. It is important to select these medications with care since some dogs are more sensitive than others to the potential side-effects of analgesics. The most common side-effects of analgesics include decreased appetite, vomiting and diarrhea. Most pets will have pre-medication blood tests to make sure that they can safely metabolize and excrete the medication and then periodic blood tests to ensure continued safe usage. If you have any concerns following the administration of any medication we have prescribed, please discontinue them and contact us immediately.

I totaly agree with the 4-6 week period of using it. I took G/C for my bad knees for about 5 months and didnt realise the benefit tell I went off it. I promptly went back on. However since my surgery I am unable to take it :-( I think everything Alisa said is spot on (even though she called my suggestion generic) :-P (note sarcasim). I have also used casequin with horses before and have seen good results.

Laszlo's Botond wrote: I think everything Alisa said is spot on (even though she called my suggestion generic) :-P (note sarcasim).

Good advice and article.

I will add that yucca is a good natural anti-inflammatory, but that it can interact with some drugs as well. Everything else of import has already been said, but I used to work with a holistic vet, and he used to see that sometimes. Yucca is similar to NSAIDS, so NSAIDS plus yucca might overdo it.

Just because something is natural doesn't mean it can't be harmful.

So, best thing to do it talk to your vet and come up with an individual plan for your dog.

Wow! Thanks so much for the responses everyone!

Thom, it would be wonderful if I could try some of your stuff in Sept....anything that will help!

Laura and Alisa- thanks for everything! Where would this board be withouth our resident vets?!

One more question: can arthritis be genetic? I know hip displasia is generally passed down (right?) so can "normal" arthritis (bad joints in general) be genetic? Like ACL problems for instance, are those passed down? Just wondering!! Thank you again!

HERE HERE I wan to second the opinion of where we would be with out Laura and Alisa. They have both been there for me and it is always more than appreciated.

I started taking G/C personally a couple years ago. I have a bad back, bum knees, and a royally #*^+# ankle. My horses have been on it for years, my dogs are on it so I thought what the heck. OMG my back pain is nearly gone, I noticed the biggest difference when I ride. I looked around for brands, some of the human (and dog) are ENORMOUS pills and you had to take a bunch. I found a brand with pills slightly larger than vitamins and I only need 3 a day. However I recently saw the human version of Cosequin in the pharmacy, I may switch over to that (Cosemin(?)). I plan to probably switch my horse to Cosequin, I am very happy with it as a supplement for my dogs and healthypets.com has the BEST price I have found anywhere.

As for arthritis being genetic (Laura and Alisa will probably correct me if I am wrong) I believe it can be in some cases. I believe certain types of arthritis is genetic in humans so I don't see why it can't be in dogs. That does not mean that the type of arthritis your dog has is genetic. Arthritis is also from wear and tear from age, or poor confirmation, and from higher levels of activity. I do not believe that CCL (ACL is human) injuries are genetic. That is usually from an injury being it slow in it's onset or traumatic. Again confirmation could play into the prospect of the injury but I do not believe it to be genetic. For me it seems with more dogs involved in dog sports the incidence in CCL injuries has increased. Just like with humans the more into sports the more we risk possible injury.

Just my two cents.

Gee, thanks, guys...I know I'm not around too much these days, but I pop my head in and try to help out when I can.

But to answer the genetics question, well, that's a loaded question.

Conformation certainly has genetic components, and your own personal tendency to develop inflammation or build strong muscles very well might be influenced by your genes, too, so there is likely a genetic component to the tendency toward arthritis, but it isn't a genetic or hereditary disease in and of itself. It is, as stated, a wear and tear thing. (Unless we're talking about some of the immune-mediated things like rheumatoid arthritis...)

Ditto on CCL injuries. Conformation plays a part, and that is influenced by mom and dad. Obesity (not a problem for most dogs on here) tendecies are influenced by genetics and weight plays a huge role in this injury. But straight injury is the usual actual cause. It's a weekend warrior thing for many dogs-they just play too hard when they're not in shape to do it (pets) or just move wrong (athletes) and snap it. Look at the number of human athletes who do it-it's a weak point in our design. I suppose tensile strength of ligaments might have a genetic link, but I suspect that is mostly diet, conditioning, etc.

Bottom line-lots of things play a part in these.

Where are you located? You need to try and find a canine rehabilition therapist in your area. They can do things like laser and ulstrasound on the area. Ultrasound is highly recommened for situations like this. With the right combination of heat and treatment I think you could find a ton of relief. You can also try swimming or underwater treadmill to allow the pet to continue to exercise but putting less streass and strain on the area.
The supplements are great too. I have had good luck with the Hip flex and my 11 year old dog.
Jerri

Thanks for the kind words.

There are a lot of good suggestions here. Treatment of arthritis is as multifactorial as the causes. I agree with the above statements about genetic components. Its a toughie, for sure!